priestessofnada ([info]priestessofnada) wrote,
@ 2009-05-31 10:47:00
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Entry tags:mijn schatje art thief bjd photos

Don't Know a Lot About Art - But This Looks a Lot Like Stealing
People have asked me why I like Den of Demons, and I have lots of reasons for enjoying that forum (their honesty, for one thing. If you go there with an ugly doll, they will tell you you have an ugly doll, vs. Den of Angels were you get to hear how "unique" and "fantastic" your magic marker faceup is.) But currently I love them because they've just busted (what sure looks to me like) an art thief. And it was all through the internet detective work of several Den of Demons folks.

I don't know a lot about art. But I remember learning in elementary school that tracing something did NOT make an original piece of art that you could sell as your own. Pretty simple lesson. Well, apparently unless you're Mijn Schatje.

MoreLiar

At first glance, her artwork is a) pretty and b) strangely familiar. Looking at any of her pictures I found myself thinking they were BJDs, but it never occurred to me she was just swiping pictures from the company sites (and sometimes private owners), and essentially tracing them. Can't belive an "artist" would do such a thing? Check this out:

The Evidence (The finished piece is what Ms. Schatje has been passing off as entirely her own. The source photos were tracked down and the overlays done by the members of Den of Demons to illustrate the "tracing").

I cannot imagine how angry I would be if I were any of the companies she swiped those images from. Or the private owners. But I think we're about to find out. The folks on Den of Demons have emailed the galleries showing her stuff, the magazines writing articles about her "art", and the owners of those images.

And THAT is why I love Den of Demons.

She got called out on an art site, and this was her reply -

liarEdit
(original link by Radiotrash - http://radiotrash.org/temp/t/liar.jpg)

Oh really, Ms. Schatje? So, if you've never seen the photos that must mean you don't have permission for them.

I hope Volks sues the holy living crap out of her. Though, she does have good taste in dolls. I particularly like this one - Rather Ripped off Narae. Though I have to say I like the original picture better than her "artwork".

And hopefully, somewhere out there, another elementary school class is learning that tracing is not art.

Den of Demons, you are all awesome for the incredible amount of work and team effort that went into this. This could NOT have happened on Den of Angels (it would've either been locked immediately for being "mean". Or it would've turned into 100 outraged teenagers sending random "U sux" emails to the galleries and the artist, getting nothing accomplished.) (Edited - I've been watching the DoA thread about this, and I am impressed with how it's been handled there. So I take this back. While I'm still not sure the information could've been gathered as effectively, I was wrong about how they would handle it. I am sorry, DoA. On this topic, I misjudged you. - Wendy)

Go, Go Den of Demon Detectives!


moreliar2

The irony of this piece kills me, because, actually, Mijn, it turns out we do know your secret.

- Wendy
(Griffonfeathers on Den of Demons)

(Here's another awesome Livejournaler [with an amazingly gorgeous doll] and HER LJ entry about this thievery. This is What We Call Art? Like she says, the only way to deal with this is to spread the word.)




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[info]ebren
2009-05-31 06:46 pm UTC (link)
Looks fairly conclusive to me. Although she might suggest that it is collage work she produces, in which case the line she is walking is very fine indeed.

Hhhmm, Den of Demons huh? Might have to have a look at that. DoA is rather annoying, to say the least . . . .

Have you seen tinyBJD Forum though? Looks a little more civilized . . . .

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[info]priestessofnada
2009-05-31 08:44 pm UTC (link)
Well, the "collage" work defense would work better if she'd admitted to seeing the pictures. I think her denial of having seen them pretty much indicates that she KNOWS what she's doing is wrong.

Den of Angels makes me want to smack my head repeatedly on my desk. Which is not a good thing.

I'll check out the tinyBJD forum. If you like it, it must have something good about it. :)

*hugs from across the pond*

- Wendifred vonNeesToLJMoremo

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[info]lady_rosen_red
2009-05-31 08:12 pm UTC (link)
Well can't say I ever complain when I see a post from you! I misses my Wendy! Sad to say your topic saddens me. Another of my lj friends posted something on this but hers was far less discriptive so it was kinda confusing.

Yours cleared it up a lot better. :)

I kinda shy'ed away from DOD because of some of the nasty things that have been posted about some of the dolls a friend made, and never posted on there to bring it on. I do like the honesty concept though because why even comment if your going to lie through your teeth and sugar coat it. :-/

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[info]priestessofnada
2009-05-31 08:43 pm UTC (link)
Hey Rosen!

*hugs* Hi you. :) I will try to post to LJ more. I really will. I've been laying low on the internet a bit lately because of some er... pirate problems. (My saying "Wow, nice pirate outfit. I really like the hat and the boots" does NOT mean "I would really like you to send me pictures of your hairy self in JUST the boots and the hat." But apparently that's unclear to some folks.)

Anyway, I don't blame folks for shying away from Den of Demons. I don't post there a lot anymore, but that's partially due to just not being as active in the BJD community too. Den of Demons can be a really brutal place, but they are inherently honest, and I really respect that.

And I have a LOT of dolls that have been eye poisoned. :) I have a reputation for playing with ugly dolls. :)

*hugs* See you around LJ!!!

- Wendy

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]lady_rosen_red
2009-05-31 09:06 pm UTC (link)
Ah yes I do recall a few of your lil ones being picked on. Some of my favorites to! I have to admit I've only really read the stuff posted about Batchix and a few of yours so I've only seen the vicious side really.

I've been pretty absent from the doll world to, part of it was the school but I think the main part was drama with dolly people and the boards just got bland/annoying to keep up with drama. So drama drama no one wants that.

And I am oddly intrigued by that horror you experienced with the pirate but my mind is blocking the possible horror!

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[info]mizbelle
2009-05-31 08:30 pm UTC (link)
Hi, this is Miz from DoD. Hope you don't mind me linking this entry on my flist? You typed it up better than I could :)

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[info]priestessofnada
2009-05-31 08:39 pm UTC (link)
Wow, thanks Miz! I'm honored, and happy to help get the word out on this thief.

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[info]mizbelle
2009-05-31 08:45 pm UTC (link)
you're welcome, and thank YOU! :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]starherd
2009-05-31 10:24 pm UTC (link)
There was someone doing uncredited photomanips like this on a couple of the big original art forums/galleries a while back. I mean, there's always someone, but this one was so clearly actually talented that it was like pulling teeth to get it even mentioned to her that she was behaving illegally. No idea what happened with her; I only heard about it secondhand, being not in said art communities, but was able to point out that one of the pictures that some thought was original was from a SciFi Channel spot screencap. It's just like fan fiction authors who get to enjoying what they're doing so much that they forget that it didn't start out as theirs and start trying to sell their stuff. They may (or may not) have great talent, but the consideration of how to better use it just isn't there. (See Night Travels of the Elven Vampire or Russet Noon.) Mention to those authors that what they're doing ain't quite right and they go ballistic, too. (Man, I wish I could find the Russet Noon author's "press release" justification of her publishing her fanfic, on how Twilight is part of the global consciousness...)

DoD would be great if they'd stick to stuff like this instead of making fat jokes and other such single-digit-age-range behaviors. (Harsh faceup critique, cool; "This doll's owner is a fat colorblind whore", now they're just trying too hard to impress each other.) They're not any better than DoA at all, just a different flavor of community. (DoA which does, by the way, take copyright violations like this rather seriously; I've seen threads where the mods said "okay, stop just complaining and send your findings to the doll companies being plagiarized so they can take legal action.") Neither's ever going to be any better than the other; they're just going to cater to different peoples' tastes.

Anyway. Sorry. ^_^; I'm not trying to get on your case here or particularly support DoA, since I'm pretty strictly a lurker on both sites when I even get time to look. I just think you were making a wonderful point up until the DoA ranting, and realized that as soon as you started that, the feeling of "yay DoD" went kaput in my head, thereby negating the "This is why I like DoD" message you had going. I thought you might want to know that you hurt your point.

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[info]priestessofnada
2009-05-31 10:45 pm UTC (link)
Hey Starherd,

Oh yes... don't EVEN get me started on fanfic. It's just... yeah. Fanfic.

You know, I've heard from several people about the "fat jokes" and such on Den of Demons, but I have never personally seen them (edit- Okay, there are two people specifically that are victims of personal attacks pretty frequently on Den of Demons. But... in both cases, I would have to say it's actually pretty justified given what these people have done).

The one time I witnessed anything like it, a girl had put up a picture of herself holding her badly painted doll, and she had some pretty extreme acne scars on her face. Someone said "Not only does the DOLL need a faceup, but she could use some sanding herself." And the forum nearly ate her alive.

So, strangely enough, that is another thing I kind of admire about Den of Demons: They'll eat their own. If you screw up on their forum, it doesn't matter who you are. I watched a long time, very well known Den of Demons poster wander back on after being gone for a few weeks, and post pictures of her dolls, implying that we had all just been desperately waiting with tiny sad, sick tears for her to come back and show us her doll's amazing glory.

And they shredded her for her arrogance and just plain stupidity. She came back without the attitude and no one had a problem with her ever again.

*shrug* Den of Demons isn't for everyone. I don't recommend it, I just happen to enjoy it. And in this case, they deserve the total credit for busting this chick. While her artwork had been mentioned on Den of Angels before, no one actually tried to find the pictures she'd been using. The Den of Demons folks handled this in a really mature and organized manner. They worked together to get everything in one cohesive, clear bundle and sent the same email (with slight edits to make it relevant to the receiver gallery/magazine/or whatever) to everyone promoting this chick. It was a LOT of research and the creation of the overlays really cinches it, and it could've all been completely screwed up with a single "You suck you picture stealing picture stealer!" to the artist before all of the "evidence" was gathered.

And I think it says a lot that a forum with the reputation of being only evil meanie-heads did something that actually helps the BJD community, moreso than all the role playing and "does your dolly talk to you?" threads DoA features combined.

*shrug* But that's just me. :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)


(Anonymous)
2009-06-04 06:53 pm UTC (link)
Its not all about the dolls anymore, she now steals from artist Audrey Kawasaki (www.audrey-kawasaki.com)


See the image comparison here
http://radiotrash.org/temp/t/kawa.JPG

Read all the up to date information here:
http://radiotrash.org/mijn/

(Reply to this)


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